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[求助]越南语字母读写,有三组的区别是什么?

楼主#
更多 发布于:2013-11-09 13:10
谁能告诉我这两者之间的区别是什么?
Bb    和   Pp
Dd     和     Gg      
一根横线的D   和Tt
沙发#
发布于:2013-11-09 13:39
第一组和第三组是清辅音浊辅音的区别 第二组……有区别么?…… 不过 印象中是d和gi吧?还有r?
板凳#
发布于:2013-11-09 13:45
B是浊辅音, P是清辅音[p],B发音和P的区别就是声带振动
Đ[d], t[t]的关系同上
g[ɣ], 类似日语的浊音ひげ [hiɣe]
d[z]...zebra..z音...
当然这些都是教材上写的, 我有个朋友在越南, 他说越南不同区域, 这些字母的发音有异
地板#
发布于:2013-11-10 01:00
Saaqqa:B是浊辅音, P是清辅音,B发音和P的区别就是声带振动
Đ, t的关系同上
g[ɣ], 类似日语的浊音ひげ
d...zebra..z音...
当然这些都是教材上写的, 我有个朋友在越南, 他说越南不同区域, 这些字母的发音有异
回到原帖
日语鼻浊音是软腭鼻音 ɣ是软腭擦音诶
4#
发布于:2013-11-10 01:06
Saaqqa:B是浊辅音, P是清辅音,B发音和P的区别就是声带振动
Đ, t的关系同上
g[ɣ], 类似日语的浊音ひげ
d...zebra..z音...
当然这些都是教材上写的, 我有个朋友在越南, 他说越南不同区域, 这些字母的发音有异
回到原帖
发[ɣ]的g,和d应该不存在混淆的问题。 我猜楼主问的是发[z]的d和gi,印象中 r也是这个音。
5#
发布于:2013-11-10 11:56
hongwei0315:日语鼻浊音是软腭鼻音 ɣ是软腭擦音诶回到原帖
但是我查过wiki[ɣ]音, 里面出现过日语, 跟我举的例子也类似
6#
发布于:2013-11-10 12:00
@hongwei0315
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiced_velar_fricative这个是连接,不过..她觉得例子是--hage
7#
发布于:2013-11-10 15:03
Saaqqa:@hongwei0315
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiced_velar_fricative这个是连接,不过..她觉得例子是--hage
回到原帖
注意注释哦~ fast speech 和casual speech 标准音应该是鼻音(即所谓的“鼻浊音”)的 但是如果不发鼻浊音的话 就是对应的浊塞音/g/ 而/g/在较快的语流中发音器官不紧张的情况下 弱化成擦音/ɣ/就很正常了~
PS 现在年轻人更多地倾向于不发标准的鼻浊音了呢据说
8#
发布于:2013-11-10 15:44
@hongwei0315
...不太爱发鼻浊音, 我喜欢发成[ɣ]...发成学校讲的那种..听起来怪怪的
9#
发布于:2013-11-10 15:57
Saaqqa:@hongwei0315
...不太爱发鼻浊音, 我喜欢发成[ɣ]...发成学校讲的那种..听起来怪怪的
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我总觉得还是有些怪怪的…… 有些时候没那么近 应该和元音有关系的 本来鼻音在日语里就收到元音的影响 舌位会有前后的变动 鼻浊音应该也一样 所以 haga发成软腭擦音ɣ还和塞音g比较近 hige的位置就比/ɣ/靠前了…… 而本身标准的鼻浊音げ和が两个音节中 鼻辅音的位置应该是有区别的 受到前元音的影响前者要靠前 于是感觉上和/ɣ/的差异就大了一点儿的样子
10#
发布于:2013-11-12 10:59
@hongwei0315
受教, 其实我是个日语渣
11#
发布于:2013-11-13 13:07
Saaqqa:@hongwei0315
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiced_velar_fricative这个是连接,不过..她觉得例子是--hage
回到原帖
这个链接内容不错,以前对日语g的发音有过困惑,现在学习了。
还是贴一下吧:
Non-coronal voiced stops /b, ɡ/ between vowels may be weakened to fricatives, especially in fast and/or casual speech:
  /b/ → bilabial fricative [β]: /abareru/ → [aβaɾeɺɯᵝ] abareru 暴れる 'to behave violently'
  /ɡ/ → velar fricative [ɣ]: /haɡe/ → [haɣe] hage はげ 'baldness'
However, /ɡ/ is further complicated by its variant realization as a velar nasal [ŋ]. Standard Japanese speakers can be categorized into 3 groups (A, B, C), which will be explained below. If a speaker pronounces a given word consistently with the allophone [ŋ] (i.e. a B-speaker), that speaker will never have [ɣ] as an allophone in that same word. If a speaker varies between [ŋ] and [ɡ] (i.e. an A-speaker) or is generally consistent in using [ɡ] (i.e. a C-speaker), then the velar fricative [ɣ] is always another possible allophone in fast speech.
/ɡ/ may be weakened to nasal [ŋ] when it occurs within words — this includes not only between vowels but also between a vowel and a consonant. There is a fair amount of variation between speakers, however. Some, such as Vance (1987), have suggested that the variation follows social class; others, such as Akamatsu (1997), suggest that the variation follows age and geographic location. The generalized situation is as follows.
At the beginning of words:
all present-day standard Japanese speakers generally use the stop [ɡ] at the beginning of words:  /ɡaijuu/ → [ɡaijɯᵝɯᵝ] gaiyū 外遊 'overseas trip'   (but not *[ŋaijɯᵝɯᵝ])
In the middle of simple words (i.e. non-compounds):
A. a majority of speakers uses either [ŋ] or [ɡ] in free variation:  /kaɡu/ → [kaŋɯᵝ] or [kaɡɯᵝ] kagu 家具 'furniture'
B. a minority of speakers consistently uses [ŋ]:  /kaɡu/ → [kaŋɯᵝ]   (but not *[kaɡɯᵝ])
C. most speakers in western Japan and a smaller minority of speakers in Kantō consistently use [ɡ]:[5]  /kaɡu/ → [kaɡɯᵝ]   (but not *[kaŋɯᵝ])
In the middle of compound words morpheme-initially:
B-speakers mentioned directly above consistently use [ɡ].
So, for some speakers the following two words are a minimal pair while for others they are homophonous:
sengo 1,005 (せんご) 'one thousand five' = [seŋɡo] for B-speakers
sengo 戦後 (せんこ゜) 'postwar' = [seŋŋo] for B-speakers[6]
To summarize using the example of hage はげ 'baldness':
A-speakers: /haɡe/ → [haŋe] or [haɡe] or [haɣe]
B-speakers: /haɡe/ → [haŋe]
C-speakers: /haɡe/ → [haɡe] or [haɣe]
那时,天下人的口音,言语,都是一样……他们说,来吧,我们要建造一座城和一座塔,塔顶通天,为要传扬我们的名,免得我们分散在全地上。
12#
发布于:2013-11-20 15:04
watson1981:这个链接内容不错,以前对日语g的发音有过困惑,现在学习了。
还是贴一下吧:
Non-coronal voiced stops /b, ɡ/ between vowels may be weakened to fricatives, espe...
回到原帖
个人感觉はげ的例子不是特别合适,发音的位置不完全在[ɣ]那里啊。除非是个广义的擦音化。语速快的时候,从[g]到[ɣ]是很容易完成的弱化,但是前提是真正的[g]。五个元音中,e和i两个前元音绝对对辅音有影响,gi和ge中的g实际上比ga、gu、go中的g要靠前,所以擦音化之后的结果应该是要更加靠前的。也许我对[ɣ]的理解过于狭隘了。但是我的确是感觉gi和ge擦音化之后更加接近[ʝ]。同样的问题我询问了一个日本同学,他表示ɣa、ɣu、ɣo很自然,ɣe和ɣi很别扭。
13#
发布于:2013-11-20 15:09
watson1981:这个链接内容不错,以前对日语g的发音有过困惑,现在学习了。
还是贴一下吧:
Non-coronal voiced stops /b, ɡ/ between vowels may be weakened to fricatives, espe...
回到原帖
另外,我觉得测试人能有靠近ɣe的发音,也许和ha的影响也有关,如果是比如hige的话,恐怕就很难到那个位置了。毕竟g前面的a也会影响到g的舌位的。
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